[Solved) Stuttering video playback in LWKS only,not on rest of laptop. Example Posted by chj - 10 Sep 2014 05:43 One day, Lightworks behaves normally, the next day the video playback is suddenly stuttering like shown in this short video clip available at www.noachsw.com/1p1/lightworks/ It was made by filming the pc screen. At the same time, video playback behaves completely normal using any other video playback application on the laptop. I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema. The laptop is a top modern Samsung Ativ 9+. This is the second time this happens. On the previous occasion, the problem persisted for a few days, and then it was gone and everything was back to normal. I cannot tell why. Looks like a bug. Possible cause? Posted by David Rasberry - 10 Sep 2014 22:40 As an editor, Lightworks is a heavy resource user. Slowdowns are usually related to not enough ram buffer, CPU or GPU resources being used by background processes or other open apps, or slow data transfers from media drives. Video media residing on your system drive rather than a dedicated separate media drive can cause problems sometimes. Highly compressed video formats record only partial data for many frames. These have to be reconstructed to full frames on the fly which takes a lot of processing power. Streaming players use very efficient playback routines, but you can't typically step frame by frame through video, they jump from I-frame to I-frame when you pause. Lightworks tries to reconstruct and buffer all the frames between each I-frame for editing accuracy. Transcoding to an all I-frame codec for editing often eliminates these problems. Your video files will be much larger, but take far less processing. Posted by RWAV - 11 Sep 2014 00:38 1 / 12
Possible cause?intermittent behaviours as described can be caused by 'hidden' users - things like scheduled scans, large downloads, auto updates and the like. Anything that will command a percentage of commuter bandwidth as its own. Posted by chj - 11 Sep 2014 06:34 Thanks for your responses, but this seems to be a problem that is indeed particular for Lightworks and therefore, the "general" explanations does not solve the problem in this case. I can confirm that the stuttering video appears even if the load of the machine is very low. There is nothing else going on on the machine. I repeat that "At the same time, video playback behaves completely normal using any other video playback application on the laptop". Is there perhaps a setting in Lightworks that could be changed to help the situation? Posted by David Rasberry - 11 Sep 2014 09:08 A player and an NLE are not remotely alike when it comes to computer resource usage and this one is more of a resource hog than many. What are the specs of your laptop? Does it have at least a 7200 RPM system drive or an SSD? 5400 rpm drives are often a problem if Windows is buffering to a page file while transferring video to the editor if you are using a single drive. Does it have a dedicated NVIDIA or ATI video chipset with at least 512MB of dedicated video ram or is it running video off the processor GPU and system memory? Lightworks is a heavy GPU resource user. Posted by chj - 11 Sep 2014 11:00 2 / 12
Thanks for your suggestions. It's a top modern Samsung Ativ 9+ with its own GPU and built in SSD. The built in screen is 3600x which indicates a top notch machine, not? It has all the resources required and normally Lightworks works well for months, then suddenly this stuttering error hits in. Then a week later, it is suddenly gone again, normally as I start a new project. I make several soccer videos every week and this is what I experience. I always use the same format as delivered by a Sony A65 camera. There IS some sort of bug in Lightworks that suddenly hits in, or I accidentally do something in the settings that causes it. I have no idea what that should be since I am doing the same thing over and over for each soccer video project. EDIT: I now also observe that my keyboard shortcuts have been changed. I use ctrl up-arrow for double speed, and as the screenshot shows, this is defined still. However this key combination now opens VIDEO ANALYSIS window. (And it has been working with my keyboard shortcuts for weeks). Could this indicate something wrong in the configuration of Lightworks. Some file missing or similar? I hope someone at Lightworks has a comment, would that be a possibility in this forum? Posted by jwrl - 12 Sep 2014 00:23 chj wrote: It's a top modern Samsung Ativ 9+ with its own GPU and built in SSD. The built in screen is 3600x which indicates a top notch machine, not? First, SSD drive notwithstanding, you really need a dedicated media drive separate from your boot/program drive. Most professional NLEs use parallel data streams to work their magic, as does Lightworks. However your problems go deeper than that. Your CPU is and i7 and runs at 1.8 GHz, and you have 8 GB of good fast RAM. Of that 8 GB, a variable amount is being used by your on-board display chip. That display chip is an Intel 4400. 3 / 12
So let's compare that to the Lightworks specifications on the downloads page. OS: Windows 7/8 Professional (32 bit or 64 bit) Chipset: Intel i7 chipset or faster, fast AMD chipset Memory: 3GB RAM or higher Screen: Two high-resolution displays (1920x1080) or above Graphics card: PCI Express graphics card (NVIDIA or ATI) with 1GB or higher and support for DirectX 9 Storage: Separate media and system drives (these can be internal or external as long as the the interface is suitably fast: esata, Firewire 800). Sound: Windows compatible sound card and an audio monitoring system Optional Lightworks Console Optional Lightworks keyboard System drive: 200MB Disk space for Lightworks installation Internet: Internet connection for activating Lightworks (first time only) Your processor is a little on the slow side - I would be looking at a base speed of 3-3.5 GHz with an i7 series processor for video editing work. That said, given that you have a 3 GHz turbo mode available on the laptop, you should still be OK. You exceed the minimum memory required, although I would say that with the 64-bit version of Lightworks 8 GB would be better than the 3 GB specified by Editshare. For what it's worth I have 16 GB of low-latency memory on my system, but I do a lot of other video-related work with other apps on that system. Your display chip (you don't have a display card) shares RAM space, and is an Intel chip. Lightworks, in common with most high-end edit systems, prefers nvidia but can also use fast AMD cards. Also in common with those NLEs, it has been known to have problems with Intel display chips, The fact that RAM is being "stolen" by your display chip is also problematic. That said, your system usually works so the display chip may not be the problem. You don't have much option for additional drives. You have USB3 available, which is good, but better would be esata or even Thunderbolt. That said, see if you can track down an external RAID 0 drive array with USB3 support and try that for your media. Instead of linking to your imported media, either copy (good) or transcode (best) it. For standard definition work, even just a standard external USB3 drive would help. It might even be adequate for 720 media, and would certainly be worth a try. It would struggle with multiple streams of 1080 or higher, but even there, proxy workflows are available. 4 / 12
I hope some of that helps clarify things for you. Posted by chj - 12 Sep 2014 08:48 jwrl, many thanks for your response. I am a hw and sw developer expert including a better than average understanding of a Windows PC. I am also a specialist in "Qualification" of such products. For professional use of Lightworks, I agree with all your remarks.(but fyi, there is an i5 processor in my machine). However, my use in this context is "amateur" as I mainly use it for producing soccer-highlights-videos etc. To Lightworks developers: I hope to be contacted on your earliest possible convenience regarding this bug, as this could prove effective for you and me, as well as a lot of other people with the same problem, see e.g. here: plus.google.com/communities/117556098712140027240 (Des Norman thread). Below I make reference to an error log report. I can offer help in trying out this or that, deleting a file and report what happens, etc, but I need to do this under Lightworks "guidance". FACTS about my use of Ligthworks: I am new to Lightworks this summer, and this is the second time that Lightworks offers stuttering video playback regardless of format. On the previous occasion, it lasted for a few days, then things returned to normal. The error suddenly hits in. When error free, Lightworks works perfect in all regards. Some key info: 1. My source files are mostly 1440x mp4 imported from Sony a65 2. I normally insert the camera XDSC memory card into the laptop and use this as HDD when editing video. I can also use the built in SSD or a USB3 connected HDD (Seagate). All works fine, but it is most convenient to uses XDSC and then move the source to another external HDD after editing is done. 3. I normally edit in 2x and would have used 3x or even 4x if it was available, to save time. When things go awry, then 1x becomes stuttering, while 2x collapses completely. When things are ok, both speeds works perfectly. It means that when in error state, there is an indication that Lightworks is operating at the limit of some unknown resource. 4. Also in the current situation with the error, the cpu usage is very, very low, there is no fan, there is no 5 / 12
other sign of the machine being stressed. And yet, the video is stuttering.the stutter is the only indication that something went awry. 5. To my experience, the cacophony of update services from Microsoft, Intel, Samsung and others are more often a time thief than helpful. Consequently, I practice a very conservative update routine, i.e. all updates are completely manual. In this case, NO updates were done that could have caused the error to occur, simply because the machine is stable and working fine. (except Lightworks). However, after the Lightworks entered its error state, I unsuccessfully did a complete update of said update services. This does not rule out that the source of error is found on the outside of the context of Lightworks, but then again, Lightworks is the only application in trouble. 5. For example, Powerdirector video editing works perfectly, as do any video playback application. This machine is capable of any format and very high resolution without the fan starting or similar. The screen is 3600x, but note that I prefer to use it in 1920x modus because a lot of applications demonstrates their incapacity to adapt to the 3600x resolution, i.e. onscreen information elements become small and unreadable. In this case, there is no change in performance between 3600 and 1920. 6. In addition to the stuttering video error, I seem to notice a "general slowness" of the LIghtworks console, but this is not backed by measurements or similar. It is an impression. THE STUTTERING PLAYBACK PROBLEM: After some searching I finally found that Lightworks stores my personal files in the public folder C:UsersPublicDocumentsLightworks. There is an error log constantly produced. The log states that Lightworks failed to open the following console drivers. The terminology "console" in this log causes my alarm bell to go off. From the log file, and this is the only reported error, coming on each startup of Lightworks: 0.918 : Success 0.918 : ------ Loading plugin : FX_drv.lwd ------ 0.924 : Success 0.924 : ------ Loading plugin : LwConsole.lwd ------ 0.925 : failed to open console driver.lwcon 0.927 : Success 0.927 : ------ Loading plugin : LwWinConsole.lwd ------ 0.927 : failed to open console driver.lwcon 0.928 : Skipped 6 / 12
0.928 : ------ Loading plugin : mxf.lwd ------ 0.929 : Success 0.929 : ------ Loading plugin : omf.lwd ------ This is the same error as reported in this thread: www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=42&id=62857&ite mid=81 In my experience as a developer, this most definitely looks like a bug. The mystery is that one day everything is ok, the next day things go awry. Hope for some to-the-point remarks on the possible cause. Posted by fishmonger - 12 Sep 2014 10:16 Hi Carl, could you possibly upload a sample to https://editshare.wetransfer.com, we can then see if there is anything unusual about the file. the messages you see in the error.log are nothing of concern and only relate to the configuration of the Lightworks console driver which I don't think you will have. f. 7 / 12
Posted by chj - 13 Sep 2014 20:08 If you mean an exported video, one such example is available for download here: www.noachsw.com/1p1/lightworks/, se the first part of this thread for info. If you mean a log file, it is attached. FYI, I have since last reply installed latest beta to see if that could help. I may now NOT export videos at all. And the archive is suddenly stored in the folder I have selected for store exported files. I have done no other config changes I am aware of. So things are getting worse. Should I revert to latest official version? Posted by chj - 14 Sep 2014 18:59 I have added yet another example 2 on www.noachsw.com/1p1/lightworks/ to illustrate how Lightworks playback malfunctions, while other videoplayers works just fine in 4x speed, while system resources are clearly not under stress. It is interesting to note that as Lightworks playback speed is increased to 2x, the "stutter" hits in and soon after causes a total freeze while the playback apparently continuous (as seen on the time indicator). At the same time, the rest of the pc behaves perfectly normal. There is clearly a resource used by Lightworks that is too limited, or there is a lack of garbage collection, or something similar. 8 / 12
Note It could not be absolutely ruled out that Lightworks coincidentally is "just on the limit" of some PC resource, most likely in the GPU, but I think the cause of error is found within Lightworks. Hope this helps. Posted by Craig Marshall - 14 Sep 2014 20:19 Reading through this thread from top to bottom sounds alarm bells for me. Having worked on a laptop for two years with Lightworks, the only way I could play without stutter was by transcoding to an I-frame format (ProRes in my case) and working with Proxy files. Problem? Integrated Intel graphics chip. They simply don't work consistently with Lightworks. Solution 1) a)transcode. b)edit with proxies if necessary c)use 'find material to fill edit' to load intermediates. d)export. OR Solution 2) a) Use a PC with a dedicated Nvidia GPU card 9 / 12
Posted by chj - 15 Sep 2014 04:23 There may be a ring of truth to your comments regarding Intel VS Nvidea, but I repeat for the third time in this thread that LIGHTWORKS HAS WORKED PERFECTLY ON THIS INTEL MACHINE THE WHOLE SUMMER. It is exactly the same machine that is now in severe trouble. Thus, I would like to state that I do not think your answer is the correct one for this case,but thanks anyway. And if Lightworks is indeed working better with NVidea, then it should have been noted at the point of sale, since the program has a cost that implicitly indicates that these type of troubles should be not present. I can understand why professional users would use a powerhouse of a machine for their video production since that require a lot of processing, but then I am thinking of the "export" processing feature. Regarding video playback of any format during editing, it should just work and should not need an extra powerful machine. If Lightworks claims that (havent seen it), then I suggest somebody has homework to do. In practical life, an amateur user should be able to use literally any pc for his or hers occasional work. Posted by RWAV - 15 Sep 2014 05:21 LIGHTWORKS HAS WORKED PERFECTLY ON THIS INTEL MACHINE THE WHOLE SUMMER. It is exactly the same machine that is now in severe trouble... and the only logic possible is that it is caused by LW which I presume, at some stage in your efforts, has also been the exactly the same LW? Obviously you are having an issue but it is potentially multi-factorial. Have you run any tests on your laptop - even as simple as both checking your HDD status and running a performance test with perhaps HDTune Pro? An intermittent flawed behaviour as you have described does not, in my view, make a software issue the primary target of investigation. 10 / 12
Posted by chj - 15 Sep 2014 05:42 I am a paying customer of Lightworks and NOT in a software quality verification role here, just to mention that. I must say that I expect Lightworks to just work for my rather humble tasks (playback while editing). I can repeat that it could not be ruled out that the cause of error is found in the PC itself, but it does not look like this is the case. If this IS the case, then the most likely cause is the Intel GPU chipset with drivers, however I have done no updates of these drivers to my knowledge lately. Driver update is the most common source of "mysterious errors" to my experience. Of course, it could be that Lightworks, requiring perhaps more resources from the GPU than e.g. Media Player Classic for its playback operation, may simply be "just hitting" some resource-utilization-maximum of this or that resource, while Media Player Classic is not provoking such limits. But isn't it a bit strange that 2x playback works for a few seconds then freezes slowly up and come to a complete freeze, never to return again to a non-freeze status for that playback session? Se my example 2. Yes, it is. Cause? Cache problems? Garbage collector too slow or did not clean up old things? GPU slowing down its operation automatically because the temperature is rising? (Unlikely because there is no fan at all unless processing for export) other causes? I can also repeat that I can do both this and that performance test but that I prefer to do that in cooperation with Lightworks engineers because they will be much better than me to investigate into their own product. 11 / 12
So this is what I am hoping for. Hope this is informative. 12 / 12