3(Paris/Secretariat)18

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1 For IEC use only 3(Paris/Secretariat) INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION Technical No. 3 Information structures, documentation and graphical symbols Preliminary compilation s on 3/859B/NP Blank detail specifications Part 1: Principle and methods (NP-PAS) This document contains a compilation s received until

2 Annex Date Document Project Nr /859B/NP National DE-1 General Germany is in favour of the publication of the proposed document. May be that it is difficult to be understood without having the planned Part 2, providing the structure of the BDS, which is the main document. In any case the comments received will be considered. In the case that the PAS will be not accepted at this point in time, the revised version will come up again together with the planned Part 2, as it is seen as an important issue for a life cycle management of products described by data element types. JP-1 General Japanese mirror for IEC SC3D considers there is a substantial need for a transaction based grouping of properties, notwithstanding the name by which such a grouping is called, because the transaction based grouping of properties of a product class may vary over time, opportunity, and place in a product lifecycle. It may also depend on business domain. And the clustering of properties, each of which with a fixed set of constituent attributes, into a hierarchy of classes in the form of a reference dictionary may be too gross for the purpose. On condition that the BDS mentioned in the NP/PAS draft is by and large for the same purpose as the transaction based grouping of properties, in this regard, we highly appreciate the effort of the proposer and the move behind NP to respond timely to such underlying industrial needs. However, we cannot but disagree with the method and principles described in the current NP(New Work Item Proposal)/PAS ed as 1

3 3/859B/NP, for the reasons in the following. JP-10 General Incidentally, we happen to know by direct communication, that there is scarce support for the proposal, even within Germany on the ISO side about the current proposal. And the proposal with the same title BDS, the one proposed by Mr. Ondracek, was substantially different from the one at hand. Thus, we wonder if we should make this a PAS at this moment. Rather, we should continue to discuss it in order to obtain a wider support and consensus among P-member countries on both IEC and ISO sides, and possibly to form a task force including majority of principal data-model architects about the IEC ISO standard to build an NP with more substantial and consensual support about the structure. As a first phase, we must reconfirm the requirements behind the NP, and then for the solutions, we should discuss to find a common agreeable approach, among a wider circle of experts, including ISO TC 184/SC 4 members. For this, making the proposal as PAS at this moment, is not contributing to the solution of the problem. JP-11 General Nevertheless, if NP/PAS is intended just as a landmark for recording any tangible set of activities for standardization, and all other alternative approaches can be also registered as PAS to be considered for the future extensions, we might consider changing the opinion for affirmative. JP-2 Technical 1) Business phase specific subcollection of properties should be made as a sub-typing of the item_class, and in this way, the layer of modeling should be related to but clearly distinguished from the current dictionary modeling 2

4 layer. JP-3 Technical 2) There is a clear misunderstanding about the use of dependent property and condition DET in IEC and - 2: Dependent property often references multiple conditions. Moreover, one condition may be referenced by several dependent properties. Thus one of the tenets for contriving a new entity, so called a qualitative DET, the statement in the draft as A conditional data element type is normally explicitly linked to a single occurring data element type is simply a wrong cause. If there s need to be differentiated from condition, however, the sub-typing of the structure should be used instead. (Note that in ISO TC184/SC4, the ISO Edition 2 is submitted for DIS vote. By the edition two all types of properties are allowed for the class valued properties.) JP-4 Technical 3) There is an ample list of possibly required additional sets of information about a property, beyond the mean value about a numerical value. For example, such as standard deviation is considered more fundamental for an engineering property in ISO Ed2 DIS. Thus relating property DET to a fixed set of information items(additional attributes) seems a quite irrealistic solution, and might not be a good modeling method. Thus it is even possibly-hazardous to the future development of IEC dictionary standard extensions. JP-5 Technical 4) Structure such as for short term grouping of properties, shall be modeled as an extension of the current dictionary model, thus it should be dealt with as a common resource (even if they are not simultaneously standardized in both sub-committees, since ISO and IEC61360 are double logo standards but 3

5 their data models are identical )between IEC SC3D and ISO TC184/SC4. JP-6 Technical 5) We wonder if the proposal meets the need of even IEC SC 65E. Since the proposal is substantially different from the one proposed by Mr. N. Ondracek in the past, although two bear the same name Blank Detail Specification JP-7 Technical 6) Since in ISO side, it is definitely the ISO TC 184/SC 4 that is responsible for the development of such a standard reflecting the requirements. Thus the phrase in introduction such that Part 2 is the basis for an XML based electronic template, serving as generic template for the development of product-specific blank detail specifications by product committees within IEC and ISO, industrial consortia or other industrial organizations is only possible, when and only when the ISO TC 184/SC 4 members agree with the solution provided within the NP. The real situation is rather contrary, and ISO TC 184/SC 4 members are objecting to one sided particular extension on IEC side for general modeling purpose. JP-8 Technical 7) We also have to mention that there is a standard in ISO TC 184/SC 4 about product life cycle management ISO Process Specification Language (PSL) which was made by SC 4/WG 3/T 8. Also, for the specification of the standardization stages there is ISO/IEC which attracts attention increasingly of principal data-model architects in both ISO and IEC communities related to product ontologies. The PAS proposal totally ignored the work done by the groups. We request that terms and concepts must be harmonized with the Parts of those standards. JP-9 General Nevertheless, as noted in the first 4

6 Last paragrap h General introductory section, there is a substantial need for such a structure in general. And therefore there is much room for discussion before decision is taken about the PAS. Hence, although we respond negatively to the proposal for this time, we consider the topic is very important and we highly appreciate the initiative and effort by the proposer for this NP. IEC welcomes the standard but its content should be coordinated with relevant bodies at IEC and ISO dealing with properties and lists of properties, e.g. with IEC SC 65E/. Rework the content and coordinate it with relevant bodies at IEC and ISO taking into consideration the relevant standards, e.g.: - ISO 13584, - ISO and - ISO as well as - IEC Take into account also the agreements already achieved between IEC SC 3D/ and IEC. General The description of elements and structures is one thing and how to use them practically is another one. A description of any workflow in the standard is missing. Create a generic workflow for the usage of the objects standardized in the NP (placed e.g. in the Annex). Coordination with the workflow described in the CD of IEC is necessary. General The name Blank detail specifications is described not clearly enough. Describe the usage of the word blank or introduce instead of this other word. General The NP contains actually only an introduction of additional attributes for quantitative properties (DETs) marking the single stages along the life cycle. There is no description (method) how Blank detail specifications should or could be compiled using properties. We expected that this standard would provide a generic method for creation of Blank detail specifications (BDS). The Lists of Properties (LOPs) from IEC (CD) could be a subtype of the BDSs. Product data can be stored or exchanged only in a form similar to A close contact to IEC has to be necessarily established in order to take into account the needs for storage and exchange of operating and product data using BDSs or LOPs. 5

7 LOPs Technical The object Data element type (DET) has been used in the NP. Comparing with other standards (at IEC and at ISO) have been finished or prepared in the recent past only the expression property has been used. The project 3/359A/NP is going to create a new standard family. So the use of an overaged expression coming from other standard is not necessary here. Introduce and use in the whole standard the name Property and add, if needed, a reference to the name DET used in IEC Technical See previous item Use Property as the leading term and DET as its synonym for historical reasons. 5.1 Technical The qualifier concept is a very good Check for compliance and work on ISO enhancement of the data model. But it / IEC enhancement. has to be checked if it complies with ISO / IEC or should be integrated into these Technical There are some limitations for the usage of units: prefixes should be avoided and only SI-units should be used. There were some joint meetings with representatives of IEC SC 3D/ and IEC in which everybody agreed that forbidding the prefixes and the limitation for only to SI-units can lead to misunderstandings with serious and expensive results if data of products are exchanged. Rewrite the clause allowing the usage of prefixes and not SI-units (e.g. imperial units) for exchanging and storing the data. Annex A Technical The usage of formats like M..8 is no more the state of the art today. Change the format to as: integer, real, string, Boolean or similar. SE 1 General The document has an important scope. It is therefore important that the final document is useful and correct. SE 2 General The document is not easily practicably applicable. SE 3 General Establishing the position of the document would make it easier to improve its structure and content. The intention of this document and its position in relation to IEC 62023, IEC & IEC should be shown 6

8 SE 4 General The delineation towards IEC is not clear. SE 5 General The delineation towards IEC is not clear. SE 6 Title General The term Blank detail specification is well established in the electronics industry, but might not be the best here. The comment SE 3 might provide an idea for a new title. SE Technical An inquiry contains a specification. requirement SE Technical In many cases as supplied contains as built ; compare general purchasing conditions. and clarified. See attached figure SE Fig. Try to find another term in replacement for BDS. Either delete or replace As inquired with As required. Replace as supplied with as shipped or other term derived from INCOTERM or similar. FORM COMMENTS (IEC)

9 SE Figure to comment SE 3. 8