How to Utilize BIM in Hydronic System Design August 20, 2015 with Guest Speaker Jim Meseke, ENGWorks Q&A Documentation

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1 How to Utilize BIM in Hydronic System Design August 20, 2015 with Guest Speaker Jim Meseke, ENGWorks Q&A Documentation Can you send me the Caleffi 548 Series Hydraulic Separator Revit file? The rfa and associated txt file you ll need to open properly in Revit can be found on the Caleffi website as was demonstrated in the webinar. To help you locate this one on our website use the following link: This is for the NA You can download the BIM by clicking the BIM 3D CAD button in the lower right side of that page. Other product BIM files can be found with the same method, but go to the catalog above (on the web page) and enter the product, or go to the Product tab further up on the page and click catalog and find the product by filtering through the sections that come up. The webinar also mentions that Caleffi BIM models can download while in Revit from the BIMXchange add-on, see next question. Can you send the URL for the slide our speaker showed with the BIM URL? To use BIMXchange within Revit, you must install the Add-in. It is free and can be downloaded from the following link: Please Note: The Caleffi BIMXchange Library is not available for versions earlier than Revit MEP You will need to use the Caleffi BIMXchange Library Access Code: 31ca66fi How can one be certified as a Hydronic Design Engineer? I am basically a Sr. Process Engineer. As far as we know, no organization "certifies" hydronic design engineers. The RPA has something for certified radiant designer, but outside of RPA we re not sure of any other organization that recognizes this title. I believe there may be two or three sessions for hydronic type training scheduled at AHR Orlando (January 2016) and a few on HeatSpring. If anyone reading this can add anything new to this, please do and Caleffi will advise through social media and other media. 1

2 Does the program automatically size the pipe based on calculated flow or does the designer have to do that. Does it know the difference between metal piping components and plastic and the allowable velocities for both? No and Yes. During system creation, Revit will not resize pipe automatically. Once a system is complete and has no open connections, Revit can resize the pipe based upon the sizing method chosen in the system analysis. Secondly, Revit does not know the difference between metal and plastic components. However, Pipe Types can be defined with varying roughness based upon material, which will affect velocity. Quality content will also usually include Min/Max parameters for flows, velocities, temperature, pressure, etc., as well as indicate Cv values, allowing for easier verification of calculations. Warning parameters can also be placed within the family which will alert the user when a Maximum criterion is exceeded. Basically you need to input the information differentiating between different materials in order for Revit to take them into account. How do you correct Snap a 3D Diffuser object into the correct, exact Ceiling Grid location? (in plain 2D AutoCAD an RCP xref is attached to the floorplan, and another Lighitng xref is attached, and other ceiling-equipment xref's may also be attached, so that all appear in the Mechanical xref, and the corners/intersections of the ACT grid can be 'snapped to' when placing a typical 2x2 Diffuser Block, with its grip on the corner snapping to the grid) Architectural Floor, Reflected Ceiling, Lighting and Equip Plans can all be linked into a Revit model. Once the proper view settings have been adjusted to display the desired elements, a diffuser can be placed into the model. Provided the diffuser family has proper strengths applied to the references, the user can easily align the edges of a diffuser to the lines of a referenced RCP grid. This is done through the ALIGN command found on the Modify Tab. RECOMMEND: doing the hydronic system design in a parametric auto-pipe/pump sizing package such as HVAC Solutions first, then import the piping system with sizes finished, and then replace the equipment 2D items with the Revit families as noted, OR is it better to do all piping in Revit first, then just 'copy in' the piping sizing manually? I m not familiar with the package mentioned, so I cannot address that method. Revit is already parametric, so I don t see the need for taking the design outside of Revit. As I mentioned before Revit can resize pipe through system analysis. So I would be inclined to create my piping layout in Revit first regardless of how I m sizing it. I m not sure if importing a diagrammatic system into Revit can control Revit entities placed into a model. I ve never tried it, but if it works for you and you feel comfortable using it, great. Since Revit admittedly does NOT size the piping for you, what software does Caleffi recommend? 2

3 I want to clarify, that Revit does not size the piping on layout creation. However, once the layout becomes a closed system, automatic sizing can be performed using the system analysis tools. For BIM, I really don t recommend any other program. But what software sizing and piping software does Caleffi recommend? The Hydronics Design Studio 2.0 will size piping up to 3" copper. It works with copper, PEX and PEX- AL-PEX, but not with steel piping. If working on smaller systems it can generally handle pipe sizing, head loss, etc. If working on larger systems you might check out what B&G offers - it's either an APP for iphone or PC-based software for pipe sizing. We have the free "HSS" software that TACO provides, which is a hydronic-only limited version of the full HVAC Solutions software package. Once designed in software like HVACS, do you export system to Revit, or design in Revit and manually copy pipe sizes? I honestly have not heard of any. As I mentioned, we are in development for a custom piping solution for Uponor, the first phase of which will be AutoCAD based. Phase two will be to apply the same programming, calculations, etc. to work within Revit. The caveat here, as I mentioned, is that the systems are locked down in the Revit API. Our solution will be to work around the built in systems to get results, and port those results back to Revit. One day Autodesk will unlock the systems portion of the API for Revit, and then we provide an internal solution. In my opinion, the fewer times a designer needs to leave one program (Revit) to get an answer from another, the happier they will be. BIM takes longer than CAD to produce documents in our MEP business. That makes sense since BIM requires more information be put on drawings. What do you think from your experience and knowledge? When first starting to use Revit, there is an initial learning curve which will extend production time. For projects too, there is upfront time needed to set up a project before one embarks on a design. However I find more experienced Revit users can certainly complete modeling and documentation faster than traditional CAD. Yes, it is true that BIM has the capacity to handle more information, but that data is parametrically linked between plans and schedules, making the interface faster and reducing production time. In my experience manufacturers usually have both cad models and Revit families or nothing at all, do you think those manufacturers that don t have those things available will catch up in the near future? I hope they do. We have experienced manufacturers coming to us to build their content, simply because their competition has BIM content and they re getting it specified within projects. Eventually, once Manufacturers see the real value, they will catch up. 3

4 Do you see Revit becoming the standard over cad in the near future or will cad always fill a niche role in this market? I do see BIM overtaking CAD in the near future. How many had smartphones five years ago? A handful? Now nearly everyone has one. As I mentioned in the webinar, BIM has many advantages over CAD, and many municipalities are now mandating the use of BIM for construction projects. So it s really just a matter of time. Professionals who only use 2D simply will not be awarded jobs. Although it took time to adjust to the interface, once I made the switch to Revit, I had no desire to go back to CAD. For those users who are struggling with this decision because already have an expansive library of CAD details, don t sweat it. You can import or link those details to Revit, so all that work is not a complete loss. You can continue to use it, even if it is referenced. The point is that the technology is here to stay, so it s in the best interests of AEC professionals to embrace it. Is it working with solar thermal systems? Although I haven t been involved in content creation for solar thermal, I do know it exists. As far as whether it is working or not, that would depend on the content. It appears to have the same principle as a heat exchanger, only the source of the heat won t need to be connected to another system. So I see no reason why Revit wouldn t work with solar thermal systems. (Caleffi note: Caleffi currently does not have any Solar product in BIM Modeling.) Speaking from the General Contractor's view point, architects & engineers frequently state that BIM requires more time to complete their drawings. Use of BIM modeling however will result in less RFI's and change orders if the drawings are coordinated before they are sent out. Can BIM modeling be imported into building automation graphic programs? In REVIT 2016? There are many benefits to using BIM. As I mentioned, BIM does have the ability to be used in construction coordination, which is a definite advantage regarding RFI and change order quantity. The time this process takes will vary on what the scope is and who is involved. Yes, BIM modeling can be imported into building automation graphic programs. The BIM Implementation department of ENGworks is doing just that. Although I am not proficient in such, I can put you in touch with people who are. The energy analysis portion, in Revit, is incorrect, and more difficult to achieve with higher level of detailed models. Can you elaborate on how this is a value if the data is incorrect? Not all manufacturer's content is available... what do you do in this case? What value is the building information model for constructability if the geometry is inaccurate, and if you're using placeholder content? Is this made up for in the bid with a contingency? The flows aren't accurate. I attended RTCNA and there was a class taught by a professional engineer there that said the flows were inaccurate. Can you please explain how this data is actually accurate? I'm assuming those components are missing because the content is 4

5 unavailable? Have you actually tested these numbers in a realistic design and application and sized your system through this approach? a. Regarding Energy analysis: Well, you re correct. There is little value if the data is incorrect. Revit is not without flaws, and Energy Analysis appears to be one of those components yet to be polished. Several firms, including ours, export model data to third party programs to complete the analysis. I know Energy analysis through Revit works in conjunction with Autodesk Green Building Studio, allowing a cloud base analysis allegedly with DOE-2.2 and ASHRAE Standard 140 Validation. If it is not performing up to user s standards, all I can say is that I hope and expect Autodesk to improve on this functionality in the future. b. Regarding Manufacturer Content not available: This too is an unfortunate reality, and one our office runs into frequently. We have the benefit of having our in-house content team create custom Revit families to suit the project s needs. I know that isn t the case for other users, and I understand your frustration. Anytime one uses placeholder content to satisfy a system, they will indeed run into issues, especially in project coordination. Each situation is different though, replacing a valve with generic content is less worrisome than say a VAV box. We also see this when contractors substitute items from different manufacturers which in turn creates the same issue. However in either case, the method by which the situation is handled within the Bid process is really at the discretion of the parties involved. The best or ideal solution, would be for design professionals to encourage manufacturers of products they specify to have Revit content built, and for manufacturers to realize the necessity. c. Regarding Flows: I also know that there are different methods and formulas to complete calculations, and that different codes use different formulas for calculations. The issue with Revit is that the systems are not open through the API, so you can t change the formulas. We have also found this to be frustrating at times, but we also do not solely rely on the program for calculations. We also include the Cv data within the Revit families which allows designing engineers to perform their own calculations, even if that happens outside of Revit. As one of the engineers explained, you can t make it so that an engineer doesn t have to check it. Will Revit also add a reducer if the flow rate dictates a unit that is not the same pipe size? Reducers are defined by individual Pipe Types. Automatic resizing will occur when modeling a pipe whose size does not match the component, provided a reducer is assigned within the pipe type, and that the particular pipe size is available. # # # 5