ISO/TC 130/WG 2 N 1494

Transcription

1 ISO/TC 130/WG 2 N 1494 ISO/TC 130/WG 2 ISO/TC 130/WG 2 - Prepress data exchange of secretary: dorf@npes.org Secretariat: ANSI (USA) WG2-TF2-Minutes-Apr12 Document type: Meeting report Date of document: Expected action: Background: Committee URL: INFO Attached, please find the TC130 WG2/TF2 minutes from the 2012 meeting in Yogyakarta, Indonesia.

2 ISO/TC130/WG2TF2 N Call to order / Introductions ISO/TC 130 WG 2 TF 2 PDF/X 20th Meeting 24 April :00 18:00 Yogyakarta, Indonesia The meeting was convened at 09:10 by Dov Isaacs, WG2/TF2 chair. The following were in attendance and introduced themselves: Dov Isaacs, chair Adobe Systems, Inc. USA Debbie Orf, secretary NPES USA Alessandro Beltrami AAGB Italy Laurel Brunner Digital Dots UK Ray Cheydleur X-rite USA Clark Chung GMI China Andy Kraushaar Fogra Germany Makoto Matsuki IIEZJ Japan Bruno Mortaro ABNT Brazil Dave McDowell NPES USA Peter Nussbaum University College Norway Christoph Oeters SOFHA Germany Craig Revie Fujifilm UK Leonard Rosenthol Adobe Systems, Inc. USA Jurgen Seitz GMG Germany Kip Smythe NPES USA Roland Thees WAN-IFRA Germany Mr. Isaacs stated that a teleconference schedule will be set up during the meeting for PDF/X discussions. 2. Review and approve agenda (N 364) The working group reviewed the agenda which had been distributed prior to the meeting. The following items were added to the agenda: 6b Discussion of Spatial Profiles (Revie presentation-n366) The agenda was approved as amended and will be kept on file by the Secretary. 3. Review and approve minutes of the last meeting The working group reviewed the minutes of the September 2011 meeting (N 361) which had been distributed prior to the meeting. The minutes were approved as distributed.

3 4. Review of open action items AI # Action Item Status Smiley to compile a workflow document on how to use CxF in the various stages from document creation to final print output, with interaction of all workflow components Isaacs to draft a formal letter to the graphics industry community to encourage participation Isaacs to draft an asking in what way current WG2/TF2 members are interested in participating, i.e. meeting attendance Isaacs to set up a teleconference schedule to occur on Mondays Connect Room and dial in numbers will be communicated Rosenthol to provide an outline for implementation/development notes by next meeting Rosenthol to put together a complete list of functional differences between Adobe 1.6 and ISO as a basis of ongoing discussion by October Isaacs to discuss with Donahue the possibility of and time frame for reopening PDF/VT to determine incorporation of ISO features into PDF/VT and PDF/X and report back Isaacs to provide a detailed explanation of background, etc. of "dual purpose" PDF file by November Kraushaar to provide current paper and information on PDF from "Office" content by November Isaacs to provide background and requirements on PDF from "office" content based on paper from Kraushaar Rosenthol to define the functional equivalent of relaxing PDF/X to allow for more annotations with fewer restrictions based on use cases after resources are defined to provide use cases in this area Rosenthol to assist with technical aspect of protection/encryption/drm after resource is identified to provide use cases in this area Oeters to provide background on possibilities regarding metadata for variable data replacement Kraushaar to provide information of predictability and tolerances by October 31. Completed. (N369) In progress In progress Resolve during meeting Open, due by next meeting. Discussion to take place during meeting. Completed. (N 368) Completed. No reason to reopen PDF/VT. Application Notes to be reviewed? To be discussed during upcoming teleconference. Completed. Discuss during meeting. To be discussed during upcoming teleconference. Cancelled. No use cases available Cancelled. No use cases available To be discussed during meeting. Completed. (N 354)

4 Discussion of action items: Action Item 11-06: It was stated that there should be a pointer in the implementation notes for the industry to move from an opaque imaging model (often implemented on top of PostScript) to a an imaging model with transparency based on direct rendering of PDF. It was suggested that application notes be created from the perspective of the end user. Mr. Rosenthol stated that proof problems exist and that implementation notes are intended for developers not end users. He stated that the Ghent PDF Workgroup has agreed to produce documentation in this area. User application notes must discuss various issues related to vendor applications that are implementing the standard. An ISO working group cannot mention the name of a vendor in writing a standard and it is difficult to write application notes for end users without naming a vendor. It was agreed that groups like the Ghent PDF Workgroup and FOGRA, who are focused on the end user, should be the sort of groups that produce end user application notes. Mr. Kraushaar provided the following link to the PSD (Workflow) document that contains use cases and noted that since it is currently out for discussion within the FOGRA Digital Printing Working Group (DPWG). He noted that users must register before the document can be accessed.. 1) Register at: 2) The privileges are adjusted to access the information (it usually lasts no longer than 2-3 days) 3) Download chapter 3 of PSD (Workflow) rg/en/fogra-research/wc-digital-printing/technical-committee-info-digitalprinting/psd-internal/psd-internal.html 5. Discuss issues found with ECI's Altona Test Suites Mr. Rosenthol reviewed a presentation (N365) on the Altona Test Suite that had been distributed prior to the meeting. He stated that the Test Suite has recently been published, raising questions on reader and RIP implementations and whether they comply with PDF/X-4 and ISO There are questions as to whether additional restrictions need to be placed in PDF/X-4 or ISO to address these issues, whether the PDF/X-4 and PDF/X-5 need to be updated, and/or whether the Altona Test Suite needs to be updated or corrected. Adobe tools are set up in either a single color space Photoshop and Illustrator (except for placed content) or with default CMYK and RGB color spaces InDesign. For example, an ad that is placed does not interact with surrounding items placed on the page. This provides the capability for explicit color rendering. It was stated that there is no prohibition on the use of specifying a device color space (non-color managed) in PDF. Adobe included color management through the color suite which always used

5 profiles; however, this is not a requirement of the standard. PDF/X does away with this because everything is forced into a color managed space. One place to use device color is DeviceGray in a CMYK-based PDF. It was felt that variability should not exist in PDF/X and that both options should be allowed as downside creates inconsistency, further opaque objects should not participate in a transparency blending space. Some felt that it is difficult to determine when CMYK objects participate in a blending space. After discussion it was agreed that only opaque objects that participate in transparency should not be part of a blending space. Action 12-01: Rosenthol to provide to Orf an updated version of PDF Transparency and Altona Suite based on discussion during meeting for distribution to WG2/TF2. It was stated that the needs and requirements of PDF/X are different from those of PDF and that the ISO committee could choose not to accept due to the general purpose of PDF. It was felt that reliable visual appearance and printing of CMYK colorants and CMYK devices require more exact specifications. It was agreed that if the ISO committee agrees to include conversion, then TC130 WG2/TF2 should disallow conversion in our standard. Also agreed that PDF/X shall prohibit the use of DeviceGray as a transparency blending space, except when the output intent of the file is Gray or all objects contained in the transparency group are also in DeviceGray. The PDF/X task force recommends that opaque objects inside of a transparency blending group (either explicit or implicit) that do not explicitly participate in transparency blending shall not be color converted to the transparency blending space. It was noted that the intended output is not addressed and the following options were put forward: Option 1: reopen PDF/X-4 for another update Option 2: include intended output in the implementation notes and distribute widely (to be revised as necessary). While not normative, implementation notes are more flexible, i.e. a national body can republish a version with changes specific to their user community. The expected time frame for publication of implementation notes is 6-9 months. Option 3: publish a technical report which could be ready for discussion during the October 2012 meeting. The expected time frame for publication of a technical report is one year. It was stated that from a marketing standpoint the more variance PDF/X has with dates etc. the more confused the end user community becomes. It was felt that publishing a technical report or implementation notes does not affect what the user has to do. The integrity of the PDF/X version is maintained and changes can be made when developing the next version.

6 It was suggested that Mr. Isaacs, as chairman as TC130 WG2/TF2, write a letter to the industry citing the issues in the PDF/X specification, what future revisions should include and state that it is the collective viewpoint of the PDF/X task force that that the industry should follow the current recommendations. Action 12-02: Isaacs/Rosenthol to provide document to Orf with recommendations for the industry stipulating that these recommendations will be included in a future revision of PDF/X Action 12-03: Orf to circulate the document provided in AI to WG2/TF2 with a request for feedback 6. PDF/X Brainstorming & Planning 6a Overview of Brainstorming session from September 2011 WG2/TF2 meeting (N 359) Discussion postponed until first teleconference in June. 6b Discussion of Spatial Profiles Mr. Revie provided a presentation of Spatial Profiles (N366) and discussed why he felt that they are needed. Spatial profiles are used to specify how to sharpen the image (including masking) which would become part of the data that follows through to the end of the workflow. There was discussion regarding to what degree this been discussed in digital imaging groups. It was felt that for success a consensus is needed between those who are involved in the capture of images all the way through to the printing of images. It was noted that this could be important to content rendering standards. Mr. Revie agreed to keep the PDF/X task force up to date on the development of spatial profiling. It was suggested that a discussion take place with TC42 on developing the data necessary to build a sharpness profile. It was felt that this is valuable in the marketplace for use by photographers, graphic designers, etc. and that industry consensus is needed. It was stated that this will remove some of the guesswork that users are dealing with, allowing the printing of a photograph just one time instead of printing many copies. Action Item 12-04: Revie to propose to ISO TC42 the development of the data necessary to build a sharpness profile as it relates to spatial profiling and provide feedback to TC130 WG2/TF2. 7. Discuss and adopt a Connect/Teleconference meeting schedule Mr. Isaacs proposed a schedule for Connect/Teleconferences to discuss future development of PDF/X as follows. He suggested the first Monday of each month at 9 a.m. ET on the following dates: June 18 July 16 August 6 Tuesday, September

7 8. Other business 8a Discussion of CxF Workflow Mr. Smiley provided a presentation (N 369) detailing how to use CxF in the various stages from document creation to final print output, with interaction of all workflow components. This includes a workflow for spot colors; with applicability as to standards process CMYK and digital printing where there are no extra inks involved. It was stated that the International Colour Consortium can take this data and create a main color profile which is related to ICC.2 Mr. Smiley stated that once ISO is published this will be implemented. 8b Discussion of Action Item 11-10: Kraushaar to provide current paper and information on PDF from "Office" content by November 1. This discussion was postponed to first teleconference in June. 8c Discussion of Action Item 11:11: Isaacs to provide background and requirements on PDF from "office" content based on paper from Kraushaar. This discussion was postponed to first teleconference in June. 8d Discussion of Metadata for Variable Data Replacement There was a discussion on a presentation from Mr. Oeters (N370) regarding the possible uses of metadata for variable data replacement. There was a suggestion that a group be created to study this further as there were some questions regarding implementation. It was felt by some that PDF/VT already does everything that this proposal includes. The perception is that there is a need for a way to stream very quickly data that is generated on the fly to devices that are continuous feed. Limitations are based on what can be done more easily with restrictions in place. It was stated that restrictions are also related to predictability. This methodology would be part of the rendering process that can compute PDF drawing instructions based on outside information and would fetch data dynamically and insert it into the drawing instructions. It was stated that performance is not discussed in this presentation, but argued that it was implied. Action 12-05: Isaacs/ Oeters to take discussion offline and decide if other issues related to metadata for variable data replacement need to be brought back to WG2/TF2 for further discussion

8 8d Discussion on what is new in PDF since PDF/X-4 Mr. Rosenthol provided a presentation (N368) on current developments in PDF since the publication of PDF/X-4. He reported that TC171 has determined that a 2 nd DIS is needed for ISO and that the DIS is currently open with a projected timeline for publication by the end of Future meeting plans - Time required for WG2/TF2 for October 2012 It was agreed to request one day for WG2/TF2 to meet in Chicago Adjourn Mr. Isaacs thanked Debbie Orf, Karin Winklemann and Ulrike Pöhlmann for their support. TC130 WG2/TF2 thanked Herman Pratomo for his efforts in organizing the meetings and to Badan Standardisasi Nasional for providing meeting facilities. There being no further business the meeting was adjourned.